Claudia Schaler

Claudia Schaler

  • Claudia Schaler posted a new activity comment 3 weeks ago

    It is very frustrating because there is nowhere else to turn… the more I think about it, the more I feel their perspective on competency/mental illness is a big part of the problem… and this is shared by the medical/mental health community… i get the limitations of forced treatment…you can’t save anyone else, but you can do damage control,…[Read more]

    • APS investigation laws are changing in many states so that even if the person refuses help, the investigation can continue. This is ideal in these situations, just taking time for the efforts to ‘trickle down’.

      • I wish my mother had more time… but it is encouraging to know of progress… still amazing how backwards it all seems…

      • Marnie, did you see fb post that APS closed case … #$%@#$# 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🙂
        Haven’t decided what to do, if anything… likely waiting re: bank deadline june 4… maybe follow up with lawyer … maybe just keep sending drinking water… I cannot stand the thought that when something happens to her they will say they did everything they could……

        • It’s difficult to understand the limitations set on APS and most state agencies in regards to that infamous and often contentious term “self-determination”. Limited ‘reach’ and resources often govern the ability to force change. I am sorry that you are having to go through this. Your inclination of just providing her with drinking water may indeed…[Read more]

      • Thank you Marnie, it is very helpful to hear that from someone who has to make same decision in professional context… can you tell me what criteria you use to decide in your work when it is time to stop? Certainly i know that coh wanting to do the right thing is great cover for very complex desires, and yet I’m not happy with ‘my best,” and…[Read more]

        • My decision to stopping work is based on the answer to the following question
          Based on the current level of engagement, who wants this effort more, me or the client? If I find myself pushing or on the verge of arguing with a client, this is a red flag. There is a difference between challenging the person to assess/change thoughts and behaviors and…[Read more]

      • I don’t know how to remove myself from this equation apart from doing nothing, but I have no confidence that is the “right” call for *her* bc I am involved and interested, and I am the only other party concerned with her welfare…
        I feel it is an impossible catch-22

        • It can definitely be a catch-22. That being said, being the ‘only party concerned with her welfare’ seems to apply to her lack of concern for her own welfare too. This puts us back to the previous question of who wants it more. This is likely a piece that APS has taken into consideration too. If the person doesn’t want the help they are offering,…[Read more]

      • Marnie, that is perfect, extremely helpful, thank you very much. exactly what i needed to feel confident that i am approaching this objectively, and not as “coh”

        This suffices to help me decide how to act (or not)

        On the reflective side… regarding what she “wants” surely we cannot dismiss her explicitly expressed wishes…. but I still…[Read more]

        • Glad you find this helpful. In working collaboratively for years with APS, capacity, especially in hoarding is not always well defined. The basic threshold is, is the person able to understand the consequences of their behavior. Before going further into this, read through this:…[Read more]

      • This sort of thing definitely satisfies my curiosity about how they understand themselves… ultimately, I think I have fierce substantive conflict regarding the meaning of self-determination, as a political philosopher there is no self-determination or autonomy without reason and rational self interest. Being a prisoner to irrational desire,…[Read more]

        • I hear what you are saying. The other issue that has an impact in regards to APS, especially in hoarding cases, is knowledge, understanding, and resources. We are working on that but it’s a long process.

      • I would be more comfortable with “forced intervention does not work” and leave aside the distracting red herring of “self-determination “

        The other issue is that “legal competency” standard turns a blind eye to a zillion shades of diminished capacity.

        I also don’t feel like APS tries to connect her to services or options. Their approach is “…[Read more]

  • Claudia Schaler posted a new activity comment 3 weeks ago

    Amelia, you can feel the anger without sharing all your feelings with them. I was really angry as a kid an buried it in my teens bc i couldn’t stand all the conflict. Anger is the hardest part for me. I usually burst into tears if really angry bc it is soo buried. i can be snarky, sarcastic, impatient, irritable, but i can’t do red hot…[Read more]

  • Claudia Schaler posted a new activity comment 3 weeks, 3 days ago

    Im effectively also the only child bc my brother is disabled. i hear you.

    • Makes sense.

      • Ultimately my biggest challenge is letting go… I’m a fixer, just about all of this could be fixed, if she’d let me… accepting her living in her car, etc., when I could have and still could fix many of the most egregious problems regarding her physical safety is VERY hard to accept. It makes me angry, frustrated that she subjects me and…[Read more]

        • You are in a really frustrating situation to put it very lightly. There is a point in situations where I have to consider if I am being helpful anymore to person or the situation. While all the actions of a team to help someone resolve a hoarding situation are clearly going to be helpful, if the person is refusing and/or stuck and unable to…[Read more]

  • Claudia Schaler posted a new activity comment 3 weeks, 3 days ago

    Amelia, you should also check out the coh yahoo support group. And there is a book called children of hoarders by Neziroglu and Donnelly that i always recommend… it isn’t earth shattering but it is definitely something i wish i’d had growing up… if you feel like things are still ambushing you, it might be helpful. 🙂

  • Claudia Schaler posted a new activity comment 3 weeks, 3 days ago

    APS has been involved with my mother for about 5 years. My line on APs is that it is better than no APs but not by much. do you have any more specific questions? They have not achieved anything tangible but I was living abroad and it was marginally better knowing they had a cw assigned …

    • Agreed and it also depends on how knowledgeable the worker is on hoarding and what the agency resources are. Where I’m at, APS rarely screens cases in as there are little to no resources and the individual is always reluctant to agree to work with APS knowing their past approach has been full clean outs.

      • It is very frustrating because there is nowhere else to turn… the more I think about it, the more I feel their perspective on competency/mental illness is a big part of the problem… and this is shared by the medical/mental health community… i get the limitations of forced treatment…you can’t save anyone else, but you can do damage control,…[Read more]

        • APS investigation laws are changing in many states so that even if the person refuses help, the investigation can continue. This is ideal in these situations, just taking time for the efforts to ‘trickle down’.

          • I wish my mother had more time… but it is encouraging to know of progress… still amazing how backwards it all seems…

          • Marnie, did you see fb post that APS closed case … #$%@#$# 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🙂
            Haven’t decided what to do, if anything… likely waiting re: bank deadline june 4… maybe follow up with lawyer … maybe just keep sending drinking water… I cannot stand the thought that when something happens to her they will say they did everything they could……

            • It’s difficult to understand the limitations set on APS and most state agencies in regards to that infamous and often contentious term “self-determination”. Limited ‘reach’ and resources often govern the ability to force change. I am sorry that you are having to go through this. Your inclination of just providing her with drinking water may indeed…[Read more]

          • Thank you Marnie, it is very helpful to hear that from someone who has to make same decision in professional context… can you tell me what criteria you use to decide in your work when it is time to stop? Certainly i know that coh wanting to do the right thing is great cover for very complex desires, and yet I’m not happy with ‘my best,” and…[Read more]

            • My decision to stopping work is based on the answer to the following question
              Based on the current level of engagement, who wants this effort more, me or the client? If I find myself pushing or on the verge of arguing with a client, this is a red flag. There is a difference between challenging the person to assess/change thoughts and behaviors and…[Read more]

          • I don’t know how to remove myself from this equation apart from doing nothing, but I have no confidence that is the “right” call for *her* bc I am involved and interested, and I am the only other party concerned with her welfare…
            I feel it is an impossible catch-22

            • It can definitely be a catch-22. That being said, being the ‘only party concerned with her welfare’ seems to apply to her lack of concern for her own welfare too. This puts us back to the previous question of who wants it more. This is likely a piece that APS has taken into consideration too. If the person doesn’t want the help they are offering,…[Read more]

          • Marnie, that is perfect, extremely helpful, thank you very much. exactly what i needed to feel confident that i am approaching this objectively, and not as “coh”

            This suffices to help me decide how to act (or not)

            On the reflective side… regarding what she “wants” surely we cannot dismiss her explicitly expressed wishes…. but I still…[Read more]

            • Glad you find this helpful. In working collaboratively for years with APS, capacity, especially in hoarding is not always well defined. The basic threshold is, is the person able to understand the consequences of their behavior. Before going further into this, read through this:…[Read more]

          • This sort of thing definitely satisfies my curiosity about how they understand themselves… ultimately, I think I have fierce substantive conflict regarding the meaning of self-determination, as a political philosopher there is no self-determination or autonomy without reason and rational self interest. Being a prisoner to irrational desire,…[Read more]

            • I hear what you are saying. The other issue that has an impact in regards to APS, especially in hoarding cases, is knowledge, understanding, and resources. We are working on that but it’s a long process.

          • I would be more comfortable with “forced intervention does not work” and leave aside the distracting red herring of “self-determination “

            The other issue is that “legal competency” standard turns a blind eye to a zillion shades of diminished capacity.

            I also don’t feel like APS tries to connect her to services or options. Their approach is “…[Read more]

  • Marnie , i posted to the open topic that i am traveling last week… still on the road, please confirm that you see this, sucks to be missing these opportunities! i will also post to fb

  • Ok, i think i tested it successfully but if im a no show, it’s due to technical difficulty…:)

  • Claudia Schaler posted a new activity comment 1 month, 3 weeks ago

    Hmm the online link is saying address invalid when i tried to test… does the phone in option mean no video?

  • Claudia Schaler posted a new activity comment 1 month, 3 weeks ago

    So this works basically as a phone call rather than chat?

  • Claudia Schaler posted a new activity comment 1 month, 3 weeks ago

    So where exactly does this conversation take place… im not quite in command of this interface? 🙃

  • Claudia Schaler posted a new activity comment 1 month, 3 weeks ago

    🙂

  • Claudia Schaler posted a new activity comment 1 month, 3 weeks ago

    Even if it isn’t directly relating to comorbidity, vetted material on pds would be useful…

  • Claudia Schaler posted a new activity comment 1 month, 3 weeks ago

    Think anyone else is going to be joining this week?

  • Claudia Schaler posted a new activity comment 1 month, 3 weeks ago

    For now, I think the point is moot…I cant say whether my mother is is the process of a major break with reality or whether she will come around… only time will tell…

  • Claudia Schaler posted a new activity comment 1 month, 3 weeks ago

    This is something that comes up a lot on the yahoo support group… it is the impression of most/many that the data cannot capture the hoarders who intractably deny the problem and refuse treatment and that there is a big gap in the research reflecting our experience with our parents… we often suspect that that there may be a very small…[Read more]

  • And yet another question/comment: would love to see more in library on comorbidity re: personality disorders… it seems like many if not most of the coh i encounter with the most intractable parents are dealing with these issues.

  • More questions: tips for coping with no insight and vehement, defensive denial?

  • Marnie, is there a place for general or procedural questions? For example, looking through the library, so many resources would be helpful tools to share with my mother as a communication vehicle, but I fully appreciate the importance of not giving away the resources outside of subscription… Are there any acceptible uses with our beloved hoarders?

    • All the information in the Library is public so printing it out is not a problem. What we don’t want is anyone other than subscribing members logging in and gaining access to the other features and benefits of the site. As I mentioned in a reply above, the Library is a great resource for topic discussions for the weekly group. If you find a…[Read more]

      • For now, I think the point is moot…I cant say whether my mother is is the process of a major break with reality or whether she will come around… only time will tell…

  • Hi all, please see the post on the friends and family group re: Warning, not for squeamish so we can discuss further, 😏 CS

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