Marnie Matthews, MSW, LICSW

Marnie Matthews, MSW, LICSW

  • Marnie Matthews, MSW, LICSW posted a new activity comment 5 days, 4 hours ago

    Group in 30 minutes, will you be participating? Amelia is likely unable to, she’s out of town doing some self-care.

  • Marnie Matthews, MSW, LICSW posted a new activity comment 5 days, 4 hours ago

    I would agree that the landscape is significantly different now. Additionally, more and more COH and spouses are getting out in the public arena to speak about their experience and the impact on their lives as well as partnering with researchers. These include, but are not limited to, the authors you mentioned, Cecelia Garrett – who has partnered…[Read more]

  • Marnie Matthews, MSW, LICSW posted a new activity comment 5 days, 5 hours ago

    This was a lot to take in so I hope that I have addressed each issue for you here.

    The ‘fortress effect’ is definitely a common thread in hoarding. Remember that the clutter is a symptom of hoarding disorder, it is a ‘soothing behavior’ for lack of a better description. This explains why there are physical walls built to reflect the internal…[Read more]

    • Have you read Barbara Allen and Jesse Scholl?

      I don’t imagine researchers are oblivious to what they cannot study, only emphasizing that this lacunae is significant issue for many COH whom I talk to… it is a major road block for many who feel that experts “don’t get it.” Many have disengaged… but the landscape is very different from what wa…[Read more]

    • I would agree that the landscape is significantly different now. Additionally, more and more COH and spouses are getting out in the public arena to speak about their experience and the impact on their lives as well as partnering with researchers. These include, but are not limited to, the authors you mentioned, Cecelia Garrett – who has partnered…[Read more]

    • 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻🙂

    • Group in 30 minutes, will you be participating? Amelia is likely unable to, she’s out of town doing some self-care.

  • Marnie Matthews, MSW, LICSW posted a new activity comment 5 days, 19 hours ago

    Awesome! Hoping it gave you the space you needed to focus on you and only you. Glad to have you with us. I am not usually online this late in the evening however, was updating some things and wanted to say hello.

  • Marnie Matthews, MSW, LICSW posted a new activity comment 6 days, 2 hours ago

    In regards to the self-medicating yes, but the hoarding is not the self-medication, an acquiring addiction is. Hoarding disorder is a completely separate issue as excessive acquiring occurs outside of those with hoarding disorder in addition to frequently co-occuring with hoarding disorder. This self-medicating through acquiring is typically…[Read more]

    • This interface is killing me Marnie… I just typed a really long reply and it vanished. i’m Going to send you and email instead

    • I also see the fortress-effect of the hoard functioning as a huge LEAVE ME ALONE, KEEP OUT OR ELSE, just like substance abuse, and the fortress keeps people/experience from causing pain, it has a distancing, numbing , anesthetic effect. Given the rampant alcoholism in my mother’s family, and her vehement determination that she would never be a…[Read more]

    • I get what you are saying about PD. The problem is basically that 100% of our parents never seek treatment for hoarding disorder so these two populations do not overlap. We don’t know the population in treatment and experts don’t know ours… I don’t know anyone from COH Yahoo whose parent was ever treated and Many seem to feel their paren…[Read more]

      • This was a lot to take in so I hope that I have addressed each issue for you here.

        The ‘fortress effect’ is definitely a common thread in hoarding. Remember that the clutter is a symptom of hoarding disorder, it is a ‘soothing behavior’ for lack of a better description. This explains why there are physical walls built to reflect the internal…[Read more]

        • Have you read Barbara Allen and Jesse Scholl?

          I don’t imagine researchers are oblivious to what they cannot study, only emphasizing that this lacunae is significant issue for many COH whom I talk to… it is a major road block for many who feel that experts “don’t get it.” Many have disengaged… but the landscape is very different from what wa…[Read more]

        • I would agree that the landscape is significantly different now. Additionally, more and more COH and spouses are getting out in the public arena to speak about their experience and the impact on their lives as well as partnering with researchers. These include, but are not limited to, the authors you mentioned, Cecelia Garrett – who has partnered…[Read more]

        • 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻🙂

        • Group in 30 minutes, will you be participating? Amelia is likely unable to, she’s out of town doing some self-care.

  • Do you recognize the co-occurring mental health disorders such as depression, anxiety, add/adhd, ocd in your family member? If so, how do they impact the hoarding? Do they impact you differently that the hoarding does?

    • YES. I wish I could unpack it better, but I assume you already picked up on that Marnie. I’m finally resettled for this Thursday :). So many coh I talk to seem to be responding to what look like NPD, BPD, histrionic, paranoid, OCPD… It is my suspicion increasingly that hoarding may be compounded, or a susceptibility may be present due to f…[Read more]

      • In regards to the self-medicating yes, but the hoarding is not the self-medication, an acquiring addiction is. Hoarding disorder is a completely separate issue as excessive acquiring occurs outside of those with hoarding disorder in addition to frequently co-occuring with hoarding disorder. This self-medicating through acquiring is typically…[Read more]

        • This interface is killing me Marnie… I just typed a really long reply and it vanished. i’m Going to send you and email instead

        • I also see the fortress-effect of the hoard functioning as a huge LEAVE ME ALONE, KEEP OUT OR ELSE, just like substance abuse, and the fortress keeps people/experience from causing pain, it has a distancing, numbing , anesthetic effect. Given the rampant alcoholism in my mother’s family, and her vehement determination that she would never be a…[Read more]

        • I get what you are saying about PD. The problem is basically that 100% of our parents never seek treatment for hoarding disorder so these two populations do not overlap. We don’t know the population in treatment and experts don’t know ours… I don’t know anyone from COH Yahoo whose parent was ever treated and Many seem to feel their paren…[Read more]

          • This was a lot to take in so I hope that I have addressed each issue for you here.

            The ‘fortress effect’ is definitely a common thread in hoarding. Remember that the clutter is a symptom of hoarding disorder, it is a ‘soothing behavior’ for lack of a better description. This explains why there are physical walls built to reflect the internal…[Read more]

            • Have you read Barbara Allen and Jesse Scholl?

              I don’t imagine researchers are oblivious to what they cannot study, only emphasizing that this lacunae is significant issue for many COH whom I talk to… it is a major road block for many who feel that experts “don’t get it.” Many have disengaged… but the landscape is very different from what wa…[Read more]

            • I would agree that the landscape is significantly different now. Additionally, more and more COH and spouses are getting out in the public arena to speak about their experience and the impact on their lives as well as partnering with researchers. These include, but are not limited to, the authors you mentioned, Cecelia Garrett – who has partnered…[Read more]

            • 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻🙂

            • Group in 30 minutes, will you be participating? Amelia is likely unable to, she’s out of town doing some self-care.

  • In your experience, what is the most misunderstood perception of children of hoarders?

  • Marnie Matthews, MSW, LICSW posted a new activity comment 2 weeks, 5 days ago

    I hear what you are saying. The other issue that has an impact in regards to APS, especially in hoarding cases, is knowledge, understanding, and resources. We are working on that but it’s a long process.

  • Marnie Matthews, MSW, LICSW posted a new activity comment 2 weeks, 6 days ago

    Glad you find this helpful. In working collaboratively for years with APS, capacity, especially in hoarding is not always well defined. The basic threshold is, is the person able to understand the consequences of their behavior. Before going further into this, read through this:…[Read more]

  • Marnie Matthews, MSW, LICSW posted a new activity comment 2 weeks, 6 days ago

    It can definitely be a catch-22. That being said, being the ‘only party concerned with her welfare’ seems to apply to her lack of concern for her own welfare too. This puts us back to the previous question of who wants it more. This is likely a piece that APS has taken into consideration too. If the person doesn’t want the help they are offering,…[Read more]

  • Marnie Matthews, MSW, LICSW posted a new activity comment 2 weeks, 6 days ago

    My decision to stopping work is based on the answer to the following question
    Based on the current level of engagement, who wants this effort more, me or the client? If I find myself pushing or on the verge of arguing with a client, this is a red flag. There is a difference between challenging the person to assess/change thoughts and behaviors and…[Read more]

  • Marnie Matthews, MSW, LICSW posted a new activity comment 2 weeks, 6 days ago

    It’s difficult to understand the limitations set on APS and most state agencies in regards to that infamous and often contentious term “self-determination”. Limited ‘reach’ and resources often govern the ability to force change. I am sorry that you are having to go through this. Your inclination of just providing her with drinking water may indeed…[Read more]

  • Marnie Matthews, MSW, LICSW posted a new activity comment 2 weeks, 6 days ago

    You are in a really frustrating situation to put it very lightly. There is a point in situations where I have to consider if I am being helpful anymore to person or the situation. While all the actions of a team to help someone resolve a hoarding situation are clearly going to be helpful, if the person is refusing and/or stuck and unable to…[Read more]

  • Marnie Matthews, MSW, LICSW posted a new activity comment 3 weeks ago

    Well said Claudia. Amelia, is this helpful?

  • Marnie Matthews, MSW, LICSW posted a new activity comment 3 weeks ago

    APS investigation laws are changing in many states so that even if the person refuses help, the investigation can continue. This is ideal in these situations, just taking time for the efforts to ‘trickle down’.

    • I wish my mother had more time… but it is encouraging to know of progress… still amazing how backwards it all seems…

    • Marnie, did you see fb post that APS closed case … #$%@#$# 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🙂
      Haven’t decided what to do, if anything… likely waiting re: bank deadline june 4… maybe follow up with lawyer … maybe just keep sending drinking water… I cannot stand the thought that when something happens to her they will say they did everything they could……

      • It’s difficult to understand the limitations set on APS and most state agencies in regards to that infamous and often contentious term “self-determination”. Limited ‘reach’ and resources often govern the ability to force change. I am sorry that you are having to go through this. Your inclination of just providing her with drinking water may indeed…[Read more]

    • Thank you Marnie, it is very helpful to hear that from someone who has to make same decision in professional context… can you tell me what criteria you use to decide in your work when it is time to stop? Certainly i know that coh wanting to do the right thing is great cover for very complex desires, and yet I’m not happy with ‘my best,” and…[Read more]

      • My decision to stopping work is based on the answer to the following question
        Based on the current level of engagement, who wants this effort more, me or the client? If I find myself pushing or on the verge of arguing with a client, this is a red flag. There is a difference between challenging the person to assess/change thoughts and behaviors and…[Read more]

    • I don’t know how to remove myself from this equation apart from doing nothing, but I have no confidence that is the “right” call for *her* bc I am involved and interested, and I am the only other party concerned with her welfare…
      I feel it is an impossible catch-22

      • It can definitely be a catch-22. That being said, being the ‘only party concerned with her welfare’ seems to apply to her lack of concern for her own welfare too. This puts us back to the previous question of who wants it more. This is likely a piece that APS has taken into consideration too. If the person doesn’t want the help they are offering,…[Read more]

    • Marnie, that is perfect, extremely helpful, thank you very much. exactly what i needed to feel confident that i am approaching this objectively, and not as “coh”

      This suffices to help me decide how to act (or not)

      On the reflective side… regarding what she “wants” surely we cannot dismiss her explicitly expressed wishes…. but I still…[Read more]

      • Glad you find this helpful. In working collaboratively for years with APS, capacity, especially in hoarding is not always well defined. The basic threshold is, is the person able to understand the consequences of their behavior. Before going further into this, read through this:…[Read more]

    • This sort of thing definitely satisfies my curiosity about how they understand themselves… ultimately, I think I have fierce substantive conflict regarding the meaning of self-determination, as a political philosopher there is no self-determination or autonomy without reason and rational self interest. Being a prisoner to irrational desire,…[Read more]

      • I hear what you are saying. The other issue that has an impact in regards to APS, especially in hoarding cases, is knowledge, understanding, and resources. We are working on that but it’s a long process.

    • I would be more comfortable with “forced intervention does not work” and leave aside the distracting red herring of “self-determination “

      The other issue is that “legal competency” standard turns a blind eye to a zillion shades of diminished capacity.

      I also don’t feel like APS tries to connect her to services or options. Their approach is “…[Read more]

  • Marnie Matthews, MSW, LICSW posted a new activity comment 3 weeks ago

    Are you up for a makeup this week Amelia?

  • Marnie Matthews, MSW, LICSW posted a new activity comment 3 weeks ago

    Agreed and it also depends on how knowledgeable the worker is on hoarding and what the agency resources are. Where I’m at, APS rarely screens cases in as there are little to no resources and the individual is always reluctant to agree to work with APS knowing their past approach has been full clean outs.

    • It is very frustrating because there is nowhere else to turn… the more I think about it, the more I feel their perspective on competency/mental illness is a big part of the problem… and this is shared by the medical/mental health community… i get the limitations of forced treatment…you can’t save anyone else, but you can do damage control,…[Read more]

      • APS investigation laws are changing in many states so that even if the person refuses help, the investigation can continue. This is ideal in these situations, just taking time for the efforts to ‘trickle down’.

        • I wish my mother had more time… but it is encouraging to know of progress… still amazing how backwards it all seems…

        • Marnie, did you see fb post that APS closed case … #$%@#$# 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🙂
          Haven’t decided what to do, if anything… likely waiting re: bank deadline june 4… maybe follow up with lawyer … maybe just keep sending drinking water… I cannot stand the thought that when something happens to her they will say they did everything they could……

          • It’s difficult to understand the limitations set on APS and most state agencies in regards to that infamous and often contentious term “self-determination”. Limited ‘reach’ and resources often govern the ability to force change. I am sorry that you are having to go through this. Your inclination of just providing her with drinking water may indeed…[Read more]

        • Thank you Marnie, it is very helpful to hear that from someone who has to make same decision in professional context… can you tell me what criteria you use to decide in your work when it is time to stop? Certainly i know that coh wanting to do the right thing is great cover for very complex desires, and yet I’m not happy with ‘my best,” and…[Read more]

          • My decision to stopping work is based on the answer to the following question
            Based on the current level of engagement, who wants this effort more, me or the client? If I find myself pushing or on the verge of arguing with a client, this is a red flag. There is a difference between challenging the person to assess/change thoughts and behaviors and…[Read more]

        • I don’t know how to remove myself from this equation apart from doing nothing, but I have no confidence that is the “right” call for *her* bc I am involved and interested, and I am the only other party concerned with her welfare…
          I feel it is an impossible catch-22

          • It can definitely be a catch-22. That being said, being the ‘only party concerned with her welfare’ seems to apply to her lack of concern for her own welfare too. This puts us back to the previous question of who wants it more. This is likely a piece that APS has taken into consideration too. If the person doesn’t want the help they are offering,…[Read more]

        • Marnie, that is perfect, extremely helpful, thank you very much. exactly what i needed to feel confident that i am approaching this objectively, and not as “coh”

          This suffices to help me decide how to act (or not)

          On the reflective side… regarding what she “wants” surely we cannot dismiss her explicitly expressed wishes…. but I still…[Read more]

          • Glad you find this helpful. In working collaboratively for years with APS, capacity, especially in hoarding is not always well defined. The basic threshold is, is the person able to understand the consequences of their behavior. Before going further into this, read through this:…[Read more]

        • This sort of thing definitely satisfies my curiosity about how they understand themselves… ultimately, I think I have fierce substantive conflict regarding the meaning of self-determination, as a political philosopher there is no self-determination or autonomy without reason and rational self interest. Being a prisoner to irrational desire,…[Read more]

          • I hear what you are saying. The other issue that has an impact in regards to APS, especially in hoarding cases, is knowledge, understanding, and resources. We are working on that but it’s a long process.

        • I would be more comfortable with “forced intervention does not work” and leave aside the distracting red herring of “self-determination “

          The other issue is that “legal competency” standard turns a blind eye to a zillion shades of diminished capacity.

          I also don’t feel like APS tries to connect her to services or options. Their approach is “…[Read more]

  • Marnie Matthews, MSW, LICSW posted a new activity comment 3 weeks ago

    What she said!

  • Marnie Matthews, MSW, LICSW posted a new activity comment 3 weeks ago

    Makes sense.

    • Ultimately my biggest challenge is letting go… I’m a fixer, just about all of this could be fixed, if she’d let me… accepting her living in her car, etc., when I could have and still could fix many of the most egregious problems regarding her physical safety is VERY hard to accept. It makes me angry, frustrated that she subjects me and…[Read more]

      • You are in a really frustrating situation to put it very lightly. There is a point in situations where I have to consider if I am being helpful anymore to person or the situation. While all the actions of a team to help someone resolve a hoarding situation are clearly going to be helpful, if the person is refusing and/or stuck and unable to…[Read more]

  • Marnie Matthews, MSW, LICSW posted a new activity comment 3 weeks, 4 days ago

    Unfortunately, the resources and supports for children growing up or who have grown up in a hoarded home are limited. That being said, there are people out there working to change this. I would definitely recommend reaching out to Tammi Moses. She is part of the Hoarding Task Force Network and The Clutter Movement Family Support fb group. Here is…[Read more]

    • Amelia, you should also check out the coh yahoo support group. And there is a book called children of hoarders by Neziroglu and Donnelly that i always recommend… it isn’t earth shattering but it is definitely something i wish i’d had growing up… if you feel like things are still ambushing you, it might be helpful. 🙂

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